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Trump: "most people would have taken that meeting" in Politics
Trump stated that his son was okay to take that meeting with the Russian lawyer who had info on Hilary. most people would have taken that meeting"
Is Trump right that no issues for His son to take the meeting? I think that Donald Trump Jr did nothing wring to take the initial meeting, and it doesn't prove any Trump-Russia conspiracy.
While it could be argued that there
is no problem in opposition research, if that were the extent of what the
e-mails were about, it would not have been controversial in the slightest. The
issue comes from the specific language in the e-mails that imply not only collusion
with Russia, but that the entire administration is in hot water, not just the
Trump family. The emails posted below in the form of Twitter links were tweeted
directly and voluntarily from Donald Trump Jr, just to be clear. Rob Goldstone
is an affiliate of Trump through Russian pop-star Emin Agalarov, who Rob works
as a music producer for. Emin’s father, Aras Agalarov, is the president of the
Crocus group, a Russian development company who has ties to the Kremlin and
worked on the Miss Universe Pageant, bringing all three together as business
partners with Trump Sr. (1). So, when the first e-mail sent says this:
“Emin just called and asked me to contact you with something
very interesting.
The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this
morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some
official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary…”
It becomes obvious as to the collusion between people with
ties to the Kremlin. Not only this, but this evidence was literally handed over
incriminating evidence that tied him to officials that are close to Putin,
while also mentioning that this information comes from the “Crown prosecutor of
Russia,” implicating support of the Trump campaign from the Russian government.
No “Crown prosecutor” would act unilaterally to support a campaign without
government support. But if you don’t believe me, you can literally read the
text of the email:
“This is obviously very high level and sensitive information
but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump…”
Not only was this information meant to be kept secret, but
it was part of Russia’s attempt to aid Trump’s campaign. This basically refutes
the premise that there is no collusion, as the response from Trump Jr. was the
following:
“if it’s what you say I love it…”
Also, in response to the idea of a meeting so this information
can be divulged, the following was said about others who were going to the
meeting:
“Great. It will likely be Paul Manafort (campaign boss) my
brother in law and me. 725 Fifth Ave 25th floor.”
It is also worth noting that the
first e-mail was forwarded to other people on the Trump campaign, including
Jared Kushner. This means that others were aware before the emails were even
tweeted, and they were quiet about the issue. Trump Jr. ended up attending the
meeting, according to the e-mails, at 4pm at his offices. Thus, there was
willingness to collude with Russia, and we may not know the outcome of the
meeting, but the ominous words about Russia’s support for Trump not deterring
the administration also says a lot about the people in charge. To remind the
original poster, this is the country that illegally annexed Crimea, started an
insurgency in Ukraine, has a penal code outlawing homosexual behavior, and
going against US interests in Syria and abroad by attacking the Peshmerga
fighters that the US needs as they are an effective fighting force abroad.
To collude with this sort of entity is suspicious at best,
and at worst, undermining American interests internationally. This becomes
worse when one considers the long history of finger pointing and denial of the
truth from Trump Sr. and his staff. All have repeatedly denied the collusion
narrative and labeled it as “fake news.” Regardless, the Trump administration
has explaining to do about the meeting with witnesses and hard evidence to back
up their assertions. It is no longer acceptable to expect people to believe
what is said by the administration at face value.
The claim that was made thus far
was that this is just opposition research, but he/she is ignoring the context
of where this research is coming from, and the admission of support from the
Kremlin. Under this context, it would be inappropriate for a presidential
candidate to seemingly allow this relationship to develop as the American
people would be at risk, and that typically the support of any organization,
whether it is a special interest group or a person, will inevitably lead to the
person elected trying to benefit them as the cycle of reciprocation for political
and monetary donations continue. The University of Rochester examines this
issue through a recent report from the University of Michigan study in 2012
showing the real effects that lobbying has on political favors in real,
tangible policy making. The author of the study explains that the changes in
policy can be as small as a changed sentence, or even simply preventing a bill from
coming to a vote at all (2). Apply this concept to the presidency and realize
that in issues of policy making and decisions made by Trump, he has advocated
for cooperation with Russia in ceasefires, praised him as a leader, and talked
of a cybersecurity agreement with Putin while denying the possibility of Putin
being involved in the hacking of the DNC and involvement in the election
despite intelligence community overwhelmingly demonstrated that Russia played some
role in the 2016 election (3). This might indicate that Trump is trying to
protect Trump as generally paying back debts to those that helped you get
elected is a trend in Washington. This is speculation, of course, but Trump has
been rather stubborn in his belief of Putin being a good leader despite actions
of the Kremlin being overwhelmingly negative for the US and its democratic
values. Regardless, at the very least the public needs some answers as to what
is happening and Trump Sr. has been silent on the issue for the most part
besides a brief, weak defense of his son’s action being something that others
would do. However, the deflection of the issue as to what others would do is
ridiculous, the accusation seems to be conceded by the Trump administration
through this tactic because they have not provided a rebuttal, just an
admission that others in Washington would likely do the same thing that Trump
Jr. had done in accepting the e-mails. Also, in his interview with Pat
Robertson, an early supporter, Trump explained that under Hilary the US would
be weaker. Regardless of Hilary’s plans as a president, what Trump relied on is
a straw-man fallacy by attacking the issues that Hilary supported, like
alternative energy and wind power. This shows that Trump Sr. may be trying to
deflect the issue instead of answering it directly, a change of tactics from
the usual name-calling of the news trying to distort the facts. This may mean
that Trump Sr. may feel cornered since this evidence is concrete and that his
responses would not be sufficient.
Thus,
by looking at much of evidence and the context of how the meetings were set up
we see that collusion is likely and not something the US should embrace.
@blamonkey, great points, but the key issue remains - this is a complex story with many circumstantial evidence. It is a great opportunity for nay-sayers to attack Trump, but taking that meeting was a reasonable thing to do, given possibility of getting dirt on his political opponent helping to win the election.
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While it could be argued that there is no problem in opposition research, if that were the extent of what the e-mails were about, it would not have been controversial in the slightest. The issue comes from the specific language in the e-mails that imply not only collusion with Russia, but that the entire administration is in hot water, not just the Trump family. The emails posted below in the form of Twitter links were tweeted directly and voluntarily from Donald Trump Jr, just to be clear. Rob Goldstone is an affiliate of Trump through Russian pop-star Emin Agalarov, who Rob works as a music producer for. Emin’s father, Aras Agalarov, is the president of the Crocus group, a Russian development company who has ties to the Kremlin and worked on the Miss Universe Pageant, bringing all three together as business partners with Trump Sr. (1). So, when the first e-mail sent says this:
“Emin just called and asked me to contact you with something very interesting.
The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary…”
It becomes obvious as to the collusion between people with ties to the Kremlin. Not only this, but this evidence was literally handed over incriminating evidence that tied him to officials that are close to Putin, while also mentioning that this information comes from the “Crown prosecutor of Russia,” implicating support of the Trump campaign from the Russian government. No “Crown prosecutor” would act unilaterally to support a campaign without government support. But if you don’t believe me, you can literally read the text of the email:
“This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump…”
Not only was this information meant to be kept secret, but it was part of Russia’s attempt to aid Trump’s campaign. This basically refutes the premise that there is no collusion, as the response from Trump Jr. was the following:
“if it’s what you say I love it…”
Also, in response to the idea of a meeting so this information can be divulged, the following was said about others who were going to the meeting:
“Great. It will likely be Paul Manafort (campaign boss) my brother in law and me. 725 Fifth Ave 25th floor.”
It is also worth noting that the first e-mail was forwarded to other people on the Trump campaign, including Jared Kushner. This means that others were aware before the emails were even tweeted, and they were quiet about the issue. Trump Jr. ended up attending the meeting, according to the e-mails, at 4pm at his offices. Thus, there was willingness to collude with Russia, and we may not know the outcome of the meeting, but the ominous words about Russia’s support for Trump not deterring the administration also says a lot about the people in charge. To remind the original poster, this is the country that illegally annexed Crimea, started an insurgency in Ukraine, has a penal code outlawing homosexual behavior, and going against US interests in Syria and abroad by attacking the Peshmerga fighters that the US needs as they are an effective fighting force abroad.
To collude with this sort of entity is suspicious at best, and at worst, undermining American interests internationally. This becomes worse when one considers the long history of finger pointing and denial of the truth from Trump Sr. and his staff. All have repeatedly denied the collusion narrative and labeled it as “fake news.” Regardless, the Trump administration has explaining to do about the meeting with witnesses and hard evidence to back up their assertions. It is no longer acceptable to expect people to believe what is said by the administration at face value.
The claim that was made thus far was that this is just opposition research, but he/she is ignoring the context of where this research is coming from, and the admission of support from the Kremlin. Under this context, it would be inappropriate for a presidential candidate to seemingly allow this relationship to develop as the American people would be at risk, and that typically the support of any organization, whether it is a special interest group or a person, will inevitably lead to the person elected trying to benefit them as the cycle of reciprocation for political and monetary donations continue. The University of Rochester examines this issue through a recent report from the University of Michigan study in 2012 showing the real effects that lobbying has on political favors in real, tangible policy making. The author of the study explains that the changes in policy can be as small as a changed sentence, or even simply preventing a bill from coming to a vote at all (2). Apply this concept to the presidency and realize that in issues of policy making and decisions made by Trump, he has advocated for cooperation with Russia in ceasefires, praised him as a leader, and talked of a cybersecurity agreement with Putin while denying the possibility of Putin being involved in the hacking of the DNC and involvement in the election despite intelligence community overwhelmingly demonstrated that Russia played some role in the 2016 election (3). This might indicate that Trump is trying to protect Trump as generally paying back debts to those that helped you get elected is a trend in Washington. This is speculation, of course, but Trump has been rather stubborn in his belief of Putin being a good leader despite actions of the Kremlin being overwhelmingly negative for the US and its democratic values. Regardless, at the very least the public needs some answers as to what is happening and Trump Sr. has been silent on the issue for the most part besides a brief, weak defense of his son’s action being something that others would do. However, the deflection of the issue as to what others would do is ridiculous, the accusation seems to be conceded by the Trump administration through this tactic because they have not provided a rebuttal, just an admission that others in Washington would likely do the same thing that Trump Jr. had done in accepting the e-mails. Also, in his interview with Pat Robertson, an early supporter, Trump explained that under Hilary the US would be weaker. Regardless of Hilary’s plans as a president, what Trump relied on is a straw-man fallacy by attacking the issues that Hilary supported, like alternative energy and wind power. This shows that Trump Sr. may be trying to deflect the issue instead of answering it directly, a change of tactics from the usual name-calling of the news trying to distort the facts. This may mean that Trump Sr. may feel cornered since this evidence is concrete and that his responses would not be sufficient.
Thus, by looking at much of evidence and the context of how the meetings were set up we see that collusion is likely and not something the US should embrace.
Emails
https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/884789418455953413
https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/884789839522140166
Other sources
1. (https://www.wired.com/story/rob-goldstone-trump-family-timeline/)
2. (http://www.rochester.edu/news/show.php?id=4060)
3. (https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/10/07/joint-statement-department-homeland-security-and-office-director-national)
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All of these so called sources have not been able to provide claims to back up their seemingly false evidences for the news networks.
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